Curse

Chrono Re delle Ere · Jun 25, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I can see a melee class get the chop....warriors are out of discussion, they will be surely in for obvious matters.

I can see Dervishes or Assassins being chopped away....I would go for dervish.

dread pirate fargus · Jun 25, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

i cant wait to see how they fit that into the storyline

'somewhere in these 200 years, a great dragon rose from under the earth and single handedly destroyed every paragon, erasing the proffession forever'

dark_prince2023 · Jun 25, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgar The Crosseyed

I think some profession will merge into other professions!

Like paragons will disappear but that warriors will be given a spear mastery and you can choose to use spears..

Ritualists disappear and they give necromancers a line to cast spirits. and mesmers a line to cast those buffs.

Maybe a stalker/thief profession which you can modify to be either a ranger or an assasin..

and maybe they will ad a few to get the number back to 10..

Its not at all sure that if they will have 10 professions that then it will be the 10 we have in gw today.

hugo

I agree with you. Maybe split the dervish back up into monk and ele. Most likely make a new caster type to buff up the mesmer.

LiviDevil · Jun 26, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Delete Dervishes for maximum win.

gremlin · Jun 26, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Lively thread this with some good ideas.

But now to more serious matters will we finally see the end of the WAMO and if so will we see lots of ex wamo's begging in the streets.

samifly · Jun 26, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

depends if they allow secondaries or not I assume.

mrbilzor · Jun 26, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Warrior - hurts things with weapons
Ele - hurts things with spells
Ranger - interrupt and condition
Mez - interrupt and hex
Monk - heals, protects, raises from the dead
Necro - drains life, breaks defenses, raises from the dead

Ritualist - sort of heals, sort of attacks, no one uses spirits
Assassin - conditionally attacks via hex and combo, sort of spellcasts, but squishy

Paragon - sort of attacks, mainly supports
Dervish - conditionally attacks via enchants, but squishy

Now, if a Paragon is so much better than a Warrior, then you wouldn't be able to make a Warrior in Nightfall, there'd be Paragons. If Ritualists healed as well as Monks, there'd be no Faction Monks, they'd be Ritualists. Now that just seems like a retarded idea, yeah?

Look, there is a reason the 'core professions' are called the 'core professions'. The six fit into a nice rock paper scissors type deal. Each has a defined role. The expansion classes have blurred the lines between those roles.

I say go back to the core six, and make it balanced again. Give each profession another attribute line or two to work with; there is no reason to bring everything back. I'd rather have 6 defined, deep, versatile professions than 10 with half the skills.

Oh, and here is a quick explanation: The old gods left, Paragon and Dervish's power ceased, so they're not around. It wouldn't be hard to redifine the world to have only six professions. Remember, at one time, Guild Wars did, and it was awesome.

dark_prince2023 · Jun 26, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Nope, they should start in GW2 with all 10 profession, but with better concepts and overall improved versions.. and then just add some more professions to get the list if individual professions full.

Example:

With my theoretical Changes this would look so:

Warrior (improved by giving it the ability to weild also weapons like Great Swords, Great Axes, Morningstars, Maces, Halberds/Lances and the ability to fight in Dual Style, with 2 1H Weapons for the sacrifice of the Shield.
By improving Warriors by this, players will become able to create any kind of warrior archetype - be it Berserkers, be it Barbarians or Templars to Paladins, everythign would be theoreticaly possible, unlike not in GW1

Ranger (improved by beign able to have up to 3 pets max at your side at once, and giving this Class the ability to use an Ego Sight. )

Elementalist (improve this profession, by giving it all 8 Elements: Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Light, Shadow, Ice, Thunder plus the ability to summon special elemental Summons (Elemental Spirits)

Monk (improve this profession by giving it also attributes that enable to make out of this Profession from a Caster Class to a Melee Class > ergo changing from normal Monk to Shaolin Monk)

Assassin (improved by giving it more a mix of a persian/asian lok, letting them fight with katars instead of boring normal daggers, more attributes, which let them also use Throwing Weapons like Shurikens and Kunais as weapons, not unly as dumb skills, to let Assassins become more a Midline Melee hybrid, then a frontline class. also to increase the asian origins in this profession, give them a Ninjutsu attribute, so that Assassins wil be able to use Ninja Magic (Finger Sign Spells), also improved by Stealth Abilities

Dervish (improved by kicking off this dumb failing concept of wannabe gods, makign out of them what Dervishs are!! - Dancers !!!)

Mesmer (nothing to change, they are ok, unless you want not to change their image more like to Clowns/Harlekins as evil Illusionists and to get them more away from the boring Mage Class image)

Ritualist > (improved by giving this class attributes to let it summon also Demons and to shapeshift self into more powerful Half Demons > rename the Class to Occultist. Their skills are then no Binding Ritualts anymore, their Skills are then "Pact Rituals"

Necromancer > (nothing to improve), but theoretically this one can be dumped and all the abilities of the necromancer can be put into the Occultist, having then a proffession, that would be able to summon all 3 kinds of unholy creatures: Demons, Ghosts and Undeads

Paragon > get them away from that wannabe Angel image and rename them to "Templar", also change the attribute concept totally, its way too far looking like a bad Warrior Clone. Instead of Spears, the Templar uses Maces..the Spear is the Weapon of Hunters, not for Wannabe Angel-Bard-Warrors that have the gameplay of a bad Surprise Egg >.> 3 in 1 ...
---------

when those changes are made, than should Anet add following Professions after release of GW2 with following Addons:

Dragoons *Dragon Knights*
Rogues
Blacksmiths
Alchemists
Exorcists
Crusaders/ Paladins
Druids
Chronomancers
Minstrels
Hunters
Oracles *Fortune Tellers/Runologists*
Harlekins *unless mesmers get not changed in their image*

by doing so, GW2 will have then 21(22) Professions, providign all possible kinds of medieval weapons you can think of, multiplying the grade of character individuality of the game by a huge factor, which would have no wannabe professions anymore, as long the 10 Core professions of GW1 get improved attribute wise, to fil the big amount of gameplay holes GW1 has in kind of missing weapon archetypes, fighting styles and professions by itself, to let players become able to create really every possible medieval fantas<y profession you want to create and play.

With those 20 professions would be GW2 perfect and ~ 21(22) Professions will be able to balance in GW2, due to the fact, that GW2 will receive a total new Skill System, with new kinds of skills, which will have different effects than typical skills from GW1. Complete new graphic Engine ect. will also make certain professions for GW2 possible to implement, which were impossible to implement in GW1, professions like the Dragoon or the Chronomancer.

Who knows even, if GW2 will have again this imo dumb 2Class-System. With 1Class-System its miuch easier to balance more individual own professions, as when the Devs have ever to think twice, before they change something due to the endless possibilities of skill combinations with skills from other professions, which could make them in synergy unbalanced...

Those dumb balance problems won't have Devs with a classical traditional 1 Class-System, there the Devs have only to look at the Balance from Profession to Profession and by far not so much on thousands over thousands of possible Skill Synergies ...
-----

However, thats my opinion about Professions of GW > GW2 and i'm very interested, on what anet will decide.
Will they made a total fresh start, just with the Core Professions of GW1, or will they start with all 10? What will be improved ? and more important - what and how will it be improved??

However, we'll see it, when the game is released, btw. when Anet finally offers us more useful information about GW2, which will answer us our questions.

GW2 will be alot more like a traditional MMORPG..so I'm sure we can also expect some vital changes, which will bring to the game more traditional features and content to give the game also the "flair" - the feelign to the player of playing more a traditional based MMORPG (which doesn't mean automatically, GW2 will become a bad typical Asia Grinder like many like to prejudice and to compare direct with WoW ever and only as if this game would be the origin of everything >.>)
-----

In very short:

Yes for "more" traditional professions
No to lesser professions

"Picks Up Stick and hits Phoenix Tears in the head." "Takes Idea looks around for wittnesses and runs to show someone for self recinition." wish I came up with it just had some stupid Idea about Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Bard, Necro, Ele, Sorcerer, and a true tanker.

Sir Owns Alot EP · Jun 26, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I'll miss my paragon, but he's definatley getting killed off in GW 2. I woulnd't be suprised if both of the NF professions were axed.

I guess I'll need to convert myself into just another member of the holy trinity of warrior/monk/nuker for GW2

Maximumraver · Jun 26, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Warrior (improved by giving it the ability to weild also weapons like Great Swords, Great Axes, Morningstars, Maces, Halberds/Lances).

Elementalist (improve this profession, by giving it all 8 Elements: Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Light, Shadow, Ice, Thunder) plus the ability to summon special elemental Summons (Elemental Spirits)

Dervish (improved by kicking off this dumb failing concept of wannabe gods, makign out of them what Dervishs are!! - Dancers !!!)

Add:
Chronomancers

Unbolded = Good
Bolded = Epic Win
Hellooooo Final Fantasy & Chrono Trigger, win win win.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 26, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

*picks up stick too and says: "en guarde" you bad thief", while avoiding the hits of the dark prince *

Hmm, old stuff you picked up there from me, today I'd write that stuff I think completely different, due to new ideas I came up.

@maximum:
I'm simple at the opinion, that Ice is not = Water and Wind is not = Thunder, but also that Light is not = Holy and belongs also to the Elements of nature, only that it isn't one of the Core Elements, because without Light, there is no Life and without Light, theres also no Shadow.

Light and Shadow can also be used as Elements for Spells of simple Mass Destruction. there you don't have to be a Monk first, just to be able to control Light as destructive Element as Elementalist. ^^

Uhm, that Opinion has absolutely nothing to do with Final Fantasy, nor any other games, as player I want just to be able in GW2 to be an Elementalist of every kind of natural element - not only for the 4 Core Elements, which Anet retardedly also named wrong, because when talking about the 4 Elements, then its EVER, really ever Fire, Air, Water and Earth and not somethign like Ice and Lightning (Thunder), which both are just only Side Elements.

NoXiFy · Jun 26, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_prince2023

"Picks Up Stick and hits Phoenix Tears in the head." "Takes Idea looks around for wittnesses and runs to show someone for self recinition." wish I came up with it just had some stupid Idea about Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Bard, Necro, Ele, Sorcerer, and a true tanker.

22 professions = EPIC fail. 22 x 21 x 5 = 2310 prof. combinations... think how bad economy would be. >.< WTS: Cool looking sword, non-max, non-inscrip, 100k+500ecto.

=( No farming = no money = bad economy

if anything, add the 2 proffs they were gonna add with Utopia. Chronomancer sounded beast, and than add the other one too. The best class will be monk, as it is in todays society. Not the best for farming, but for in general. And the REAL question should be,, which class. Norn, Asura, That one fairy thing that we didn't learn shit about, Charr, or human?

FoxBat · Jun 26, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Monks aren't being removed, don't be silly.

"Monks" may or may not be removed, but that's how different I'm expecting the game to be. The whole thread is missing that fact. It won't even matter which profession "names" stay in or out because the game mechanics will be so different.

Examples:

fix "spirit" mechanics by letting them follow you around in tow like a guild thief.

change dagger combos to be "building charges" and a finisher that "releases", instead of this narrow lead->offhand->dual stuff.

You can attack while moving a la WoW. A skill called "power attack" does different effects based on how you are moving relative to your opponent; cripple if you are moving in the same direction, knockdown if you are perpendicular.

If your vision can't allow for these kind of dramatic change, you're thinking too narrowly for a sequel. Expecting all the same old mechanics is rediculous. This is like speculating what new classes Diablo 2 would've added to the Rogue, Sorcerer, and Warrior.

To me the evidence points for there not even being secondary professions, meaning they will want to cram more into a single profession than they would otherwise. More is definitely not better in that case.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 26, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

22 professions = EPIC fail. 22 x 21 x 5 = 2310 prof. combinations... think how bad economy would be. >.< WTS: Cool looking sword, non-max, non-inscrip, 100k+500ecto.

=( No farming = no money = bad economy

if anything, add the 2 proffs they were gonna add with Utopia. Chronomancer sounded beast, and than add the other one too. The best class will be monk, as it is in todays society. Not the best for farming, but for in general. And the REAL question should be,, which class. Norn, Asura, That one fairy thing that we didn't learn shit about, Charr, or human?

LOL, your comparement fails imo. What please has the amount of playable professions to do with the games economy ? Nothing !! if you ask me.

So bigger the amount of playable Profession, so better, because with higher amount of playable professions also raises extremely antiproportinoal the grade of Individuality players can have in the game and Individuality is still over 3 years now the very least, which this game sadly offers us. Every x seconds I can meet a 100% clone character of myself. Thats really lame !!!

Also more professions will add more life to the game, you will have a muhc better feeling of a lifeful game, when you see under 100 people like 5 guys of 20 professions, as when you see from 100 people 10 guys of only 10 professions, just to show you a tiny example of what I mean. When you multiply that example now up into the milluons of players, then you will really feel a big difference ingame in the games wold looking then alot more full of life, especialy when you stand around then in main towns like Kamadan looking at all the people, that run around you.

You last stuff makes absolute no sense to me, sry. just looks to me, as if you would have written that, while being drunk XD.

However, as said, today, would I rewrite that posting, I would 100%ly write it different.

Clobimon · Jun 26, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

I've played them all extensively enough (except Assassin) to find fun in each, but I don't mind at all if some of the professions are cut. However, if some are cut I'd hope that abilities they have are somehow incorporated into classes that remain (in ways that are probably suggested earlier in this thread that I don't have time to read).

Sub-classes or something would be nice so we'd essentially be able to create like an E(D)/Mo.

I've been dabbling in a new game recently and really notice some of the good things that GW character mechanics provide. The primary/secondary class ability is really missed when a person can't heal very well when in battle or have the ability to rez fallen teammates. Another thing is the ability to freely switch up attributes and secondaries. It was so nice that they axed the penalties on redistribution of attributes. If there's a similar system in GW2 I'd hope that it's equally easy to experiment and change your play style.

I suppose I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they'd Archetypes and Classes as well.

....... hmmm, I get too anxious when I think about this stuff when it's still so far off

mrbilzor · Jun 26, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

22 classes is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If there is anything even close to that it would be an Asuran Warrior has a different skillset than a Charr Warrior.

Remember races? You want 22 classes, four playable races? WTFBBQ? The skill balance would be near impossible, let alone coming up with all those differant class skills anyway.

I'd much rather have 6 core classes, four differant races, and more attributes and skills for each class.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 26, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I'm 100% sure somehow, races will play no role in the professions of GW2. Clear is, that all races will be, it seems, able to be all professions, otherwise we would not see in GW1 somethign, like Asura Warriors, where this race is proclaimed as "magician race" by ANet.

All races will surely have the same skills per attribute, anythign else would make no sense. As I know lazyNet now for over 3 years, I'm sur,e races in GW2 will be just only something optical different, but nothing in kind of the gameplay, because gameplay differences would automatically lead to balancing problems and or ingame "race discrimination" and the least thing, what GW2 needs, is more gameplay discrimination, that GW1 already had far enough with its profession discrimination due to way to unbalanced professions, that were so unbalanced, that certain professions in certain spots of the game were totally useless or in generell way too uninteresting or too ununique, because one of the core professions could do it exactly the same way, or even just better, where we would be again at unbalanced professions.

But howeve,r we do talk here now about GW2. that will be a complete new game with complete new and reworked professions, together with a proclaimed complete new Skill System, that will be differnetly working from that, which we know from GW1. So unless anet gives us not finally morte information about GW2, nobody of us can know, how GW2 exactly will be. All we can do is making assumptions and think on think, which we personally "believe" how they eventually could be in GW2, others again think about things, how they wish GW2 to be, lesser how they believe it to become...

Like ~2 postings said before, if no one posts now before me, increasing the amount of professions or at least give the game a certain amount of core professions and those core professions then enough possible different career options would increase very much the grade of individuality for players and that is in my opinion one of the most important thing,s that have to be improved for GW2, because GW1 really lacked there immensely, if you ask me.

dark_prince2023 · Jun 26, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I want a real MMO 10 or more playable races 44-50 playable classes that very states depending on race and lets though in about 5-6 jobs. Daddy Wants to be a shoe maker

mrbilzor · Jun 26, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I don't get it.

You complain your toon isn't individual enough, but a visual differance between races and professions isn't good?

GW1 had classes that were useless, but you want to quadruple the playable classes?

But, after all, GW2 is going to be so different that none of us can fathom what it will be like anyways?

And the main failing of GW1 was the lack of individuality in characters?

I hope races don't go down like Dungeon Siege, where it doesn't matter anyways, and is implemented well. I agree with you there.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 27, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Yah, toons in GW1 aren#t individual enough ,when you own all campaigns, stupidNet forces you to take only hair styles and Face Styles for example of Campaign 1, when you start a Character in Campaign better.

Better concepted would have been, that with each Campain you own, that you get then the ability to choose out of Hair Styles and Face Styles of ALL your Campaigns, that you own, regardless of where your new character should start.

Beign able to create tyria Charas with maybe Cathan Hair Style and an Elonian face Style..that would have been the right way to do it, but lazyNet didn't never and i doubt it, they ever even thought about that just for a stupid second, that it might be a good idea to change this stuff to give us more individuality -.-

That are the important visual differences, that the game offers the player big enough amounts of different good looking Hair Styles and especially Gace styles (that doesn't look like ugly crap from some zombies other than faces from humans >.>) and then especially, that ALL of them are EVER usable. The difference between races plays yet absolutely no role, because it does only with GW2, where we will be able to play them.

A much bigger amount of Professions is no real problem, when all of them are based on a certain amount of Core professions and are just only higher Career Tiers of the Core Professions.

Best examples for such a system would be:

Warrior > Barbarian > Berserker
Thief > Rogue > Outlaw
Archer > Scout > Ranger
Magus > Sorcerer > Elementalist
Merchant > Bard > Minstrel
Thief > Clown > Harlequin
Scholar > Sage > Prophet
Sailor > Corsair > Pirate
Monk > Cleric > Exorcist
Knight > Crusader > Paladin
Knight > Lancer > Dragoon
Magus > Necromancer > Occultist
...
and and and...

with such a CTS (Career Tier System) it's completely simple to give a game lots of different profession, which are all based on certain Core Professions.
Those professions all would be then not very much different from the Core Professions.

The only thing, that would be different between a Warrior Player and a Berserker Player would be for example, that the Berserker Player wears a different Armor, that is only able to be worn by Berserkers but has the same Max AL, as Max AL Armory for Warriors and thta Berserker Characters would have more Attributes, than Warriors, because Warriors would have only their 4 Core Attributes, while Berserkers are far more speciliazed Warriors, they have naturally more attributes, that fit to that Profession.

Warriors have also 4 attribute, while a Berserker for example would have then 8 or more Attributes (general +2 Attributes per Career Tier, but could be also more in regard of the Profession, because each profession has a different potential for more or less Attributes), what doesn't mean, that professions with more Attributes would be automatically more powerful. Those higher evolved Professions would have just more Skills to choose from their bigger amount of Attributes, thats all. When you evolve from a Warrior to a berserker, its normally clear, that you will receive through that special Berserker Skills in the End.

The needed Core professions for the optimal CTS would be:

Warrior
Knight
Archer
Merchant
Magus (Mage)
Sailor
Monk
Scholar
Farmer < as that would start all Beginners, kind of "Novice" which role would be the political Career Ladder, becoming from a Farmer with hard work with the Time one day maybe a King/Queen of your own Land, but only when you choose at the start to stay on the Way of the Farmer and not to choose one of the other Core professions as your Main Core.

That are exactly 10 Core Professions with that you can build in the way I showed you with my exaample every possible imaginable profession.

To emphasize that a bit more, here soem more examples, on how that CTS can pop ut lots of different professions, that are all based just on 10 Core professions.

Magus > Fortune Teller > Oracle
Merchant > Blacksmith > Whitesmith
Thief > Assassin > Shinobi
Monk > Acolyte > Priest
Warrior > Legionaire > Dark Knight
Magus > Wizard > Witcher
Sailor > Seaman > Captain
Warrior > Samurai > Shogun
Thief > Gypsy > Dervish
Merchant > Architect > Engineer
Archer > Hunter > Sniper
Merchant > Alchemist > Druid
Scholar > Runologist > Chronomancer
Thief > Mesmer > Charlatan
Magus > Astralist > Medium
Knight > Templar > Guardian
Scholar > Analyst > Navigator
Monk > War Monk > Shaolin Monk* (rename it maybe Zhaoshin or Xuolin)
in regard of either Zaishen or Xunlai ^^

Farmer > Citizen > Aristocrat > Count > Lord > Baron > Prince > King

You see, what is all possible to create, just out of 10 Core Profession, when all those Career Tier 2 and 3 Professions add just only more attributes to your Core Profession and enable you to wear new armor Sets, that you weren't able to wear before.

this CTS would be nothign different, than GW1's actuall 2 Class System, with the only slight different, that the CTS is far more specialized on keepign the changes just at your chosen Core Profession. What in GW1 would be the other Core professions, would be in the CTS just only the different Careers of your self chosen Profession, which you could use also just only, once your character would have learned the basics of the other career jobs of your chosen Core Profession.

This way, GW2 would not again have such things, like Wammos.

Then for example we would see in GW2 this:

"W/Be" which would stand for "Warrior that went the Way of the Berserker" in short Warrior/Berserker

then we would see a W/Dr, what would be a Warrior, that uses currently the Dragoon Career or a Mo/Pr, which would be a Monk, that has become a Priest. Right in front of that player stands then a Mo/Ex, a Monk that has not chosen the Career of becoming a Priest, but has chosen the Way of the Exorcists.
So on and so on. I think you get it, what I mean with all that.

In short: The CTS is imo the absolutely way better concepted 2 Class System, which even when done seriously good could be shown even as a single class system, where each career just gets shown to other players in their full letters.
Means, that when your mouse goes over a monk, that hasn't evolved in his/her career yet, that you see then "Monk" and not just a shortcut thing like "M20" and when you go now then over a Priest, that you see then also "Priest" on the screen and not "Mo/Pr" or somethign dumb else like that.
These 10 Core Professions can offer Profession Creations for really everyones personal taste.

That examples sound to be very much, but in the end it would be far letter, than you think, when they are all just only based on the 10 Core professions as higher Career Tiers. it would be really somethign completely different, if you would suggest now, that all these mentioned professions should become all for themself OWN Professions, that aren't based on something.

That would be naturally impossible to make